Carlos Tevez Debate: Kia Joorabchian and Gary Neville in their entirety | Football news

Take advantage and settle in with popcorn as Gary Neville and Kia Joorabchian discuss the controversial departure of Carlos Tevez from Manchester United.

The couple had already clashed over Neville's description of Tevez's departure from Old Trafford earlier this week with Joorabchian appearing on Sky Sports News Wednesday evening to give his version of events.

But on Friday, the debate moved to a new stage with Neville and Joorabchian locked in a live debate on The football show…

Joorabchian: "I'm here because I feel like Gary said something that was absolutely wrong. Gary talked about Carlos' tools and professionalism, and he also talked about people in the second year of Carlos speaking to his ear I have three comments for Gary: I would like to know who you think was speaking to your ear and what you think they were saying.

"I gave an incorrect statistic in my previous interview with Sky Sports News; I said Gary played four times that year; he actually played once in Carlos' first year, he played 10 minutes against Roma, because unfortunately Gary was injured. When Gary made a comparison between the first and second years, Gary couldn't know too much about the first year because he played 10 minutes and was mainly on the treatment table.

"Finally, I think Sir Alex Ferguson was one of the best managers of my time. No matter which side of the hair dryer you were on, you had nothing but respect for the man. He had his finger on the pulse all the time, he was a strong coach and he knew what his players were doing: at training camp, outside training camp, at home , a weekday … making these comments about the second year, Gary wonders if Sir Alex had his finger on his pulse.

"Sir Alex has chosen Carlos 51 times in this 2008/09 season. He has chosen Rooney 49 times, Berbatov 44 times and Gary himself has played only 29 times in this season. Carlos scored 15 goals and seven assists in those 51 games Sir Alex Wouldn’t you pick someone 51 times this season if he knocked over tools or if he was not a professional, unless Gary did not think that Sir Alex looked away from the ball?

Neville: "I will answer your questions one by one, Kia. The Christmas period when it was pretty obvious that Man Utd was not going to exercise the option, there is no doubt that Carlos, in these month of the season, became disinterested, distracted, he was not the same at training camp, he was in a bad mood because he was disappointed that the club did not sign it.

"Kia, you will know that Carlos was certainly not the same player in the last four or five months of the season. I do not know what statistics you are talking about, but I have looked at Carlos' statistics in the Premier League and the Champions League in both seasons.

"A few days ago, I said that Carlos was one of the best three I have seen in the Premier League. In the past six months, he has only played Premier 18 times League, which is the same as the first six months. " in its entirety and he only scored five goals in his second Premier League season.

"Carlos’s second-year performance dropped and the same was true in the Champions League; he scored far fewer goals. There were certainly other complications that Carlos had had with regard to the fact that the club weren't activating his option, he admitted it, and I've seen Carlos in the last five months at the club, I saw the boy.

"Carlos was a warrior on the football field. In the first 12 months at Man Utd, he had never seen anything more brilliant than he was with Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo. But in the past four months, the decline in his attitude and performance – perhaps because the club was not taking him – it was alarming.

"At the time, there was no problem with third party ownership, but I felt that there was so much distraction, noise around third party ownership and how much they could earn , these were things that were in Carlos' ear all the time. And one most of the appearances that you made were as replacements; he was certainly a different person in the last few months at The “ abandoned tools '' could be a little rude, but Carlos was distracted, different and far from the level he was in. had been in recent months. accept it? "

Joorabchian: "Sir Alex told himself when he signed with Carlos that Carlos would give him 15 goals each season. The club decided to sign Berbatov instead of signing Carlos that year. Carlos was first put aside, but as he progressed the season Carlos was more involved, he played 12 times in the Champions League and the previous season 12 times in the Champions League.

"At West Ham at the start under Alan (Pardew), he played on the wings, but Sir Alex knew how to get the most out of each of his players. I don't think Carlos was distracted. Towards the end of the season, when he scored and ran to the fingerboard with his hands over his ears, he was not distracted, he was very focused, I think he was trying more and more to show Sir Alex that he was going to make a mistake by not signing it.

"When the deadline has passed and Sir Alex has not signed it and we have arrived in Rome for the Champions League final, I think that is the moment that made Carlos back off, being sent to the Champions League final. He came in as a replacement and Man Utd ended up losing, but I don't think it's fair to say that throughout his second season, he knocked over tools and was unprofessional.

"Carlos missed three games due to an injury; he hated the treatment table. He had massive fights with the doctors. I can understand what you are saying in terms that Carlos, perhaps, was distracted in his mind because he wanted to stay and he hadn't "He hadn't terminated his contract, but it would be for any player. If Man Utd had exercised the option, the third party owners would have done nothing. The Premier League has made it clear that third-party ownership has no say in the future Carlos when he is a Man Utd player. It was Man Utd's decision, not Carlos'. "

Neville: "They have 12 Champions League games, but Carlos actually started four Champions League games this second season. He was one of the best players I have ever played with, so I don't not question Carlos' talent but rather I will only start four games in the Champions League in season two, I think it was 18 of the 38 games in the league, it is less than 50 % of matches, so Sir Alex did not choose him, he had a lot in banking From a statistical point of view, it is very different from the starting games.

"I have no doubt that Carlos in the second season, through Berbatov, through the distraction of the option, there was so much pressure from fans and the media that they focused on the situation, that it became too much for him and he was very different in his personality and in the whole club. It seemed that he had died out. Maybe because he didn’t feel not liked. Maybe "the fallen tools" is not the right expression, but in the past few months Carlos hasn’t been far from the same player. I’ve never questioned his talent. "

Joorabchian: "You compared his first year to his second. My question was how to compare when you weren't there the first year? You can't speak from experience. And even when he was replacing in some games, he still scored 15 goals for the club and the first year, 19 goals He went to win the Premier League again with Man City You made a strong comment on his professionalism, but who said things by ear? "

Neville "First thing, Kia, to suggest that I didn't know what was going on in the Manchester United locker room when I was there every day, I managed to go to every game and I was in the locker room before the games and I witnessed it firsthand hand, probably more than if I played where I saw it from my own performance.

"I was in the locker room every day with the players, the injured players always go into the locker room every day, they watch the training, they see the players, they sit with the players to suggest that I can't comment on what Carlos looked like the first year When I saw all the games and I was in the locker room with him, I don't think it was correct.

"When it comes to people by your ear, it's a guess that when someone belongs to a third party, I mean Carlos belonged to a company, not to a football club, in fact, I don't even know how that belongs to Carlos Tevez However, if you belong to someone else outside the football club, he should tell you about what's going on with your contract.

"I basically knew that speculation about Carlos this second year, when the Manchester City rumors started, that they were going to pay double what Manchester United would pay, these rumors were fueled all the time and I guess it will distract the players and there is no doubt that people would have spoken. To tell you that you would not have spoken to Carlos, you are so close to him and you would not have spoken to him about 39; Manchester City interest.

"When did you first mention Manchester City's interest in Carlos Tevez? Let's be honest, you should have mentioned him while he was still playing for Manchester United, you should have. We know what is happening."

Joorabchian: "So when I said that if you had bothered to call me, I would have informed you and you would have more information. When I mentioned that you didn’t did not investigate, it is certainly in this case because the Premier League did after the West Ham incident, it was very clear that I did not. Carlos was allowed to become the owner while playing Man Utd. As a result, the company that had the rights to Carlos’s gaming contract had to surrender all of his rights in favor of an option and Man Utd was the only people who had this option, so for the two years it was not held by third parties, Man Utd subscribed to it with a two-year contract with it option to pay extra to keep it for another four or five years, she actually had a five year option with them.

"So if you had called me, I would have explained it to you and you would have known that there was no third party company that owned it while you were in Man Utd. Yes, when the option expired the rights would have been granted to a third party, but until then there had been no third party.

"Second, if you refer to me as the people who were talking to their ears, the Manchester City acquisition did not take place until the season when Berbatov signed with United at the famous time when City signed Robinho. City had no interest in Carlos hadn't talked about Carlos because nobody knew about Carlos's situation until almost May of the following year and Carlos was very determined at that time to stay in Man Utd, so when you say people had spoken to him, no one did it because we couldn't even influence the situation, even if we wanted to because Man Utd had the best option for him. "

Neville "However, I am aware of the option situation, with Carlos Tevez's economic rights, the money went to a third party and when Carlos Tevez went to Manchester City that third party …"

Joorabchian: "The economic rights were waived when he signed with Man Utd. The agreement was terminated, there were no third parties at the time."

Neville "But I'm talking about when Man Utd would activate this option, the third regained some control over Carlos because they were receiving the money from Manchester City. Who owned Carlos Tevez?"

Joorabchian: "Let's go back to Liverpool. Liverpool had exactly the same contract based on (Javier) Mascherano. There was a third party who owned it and when Mascherano signed with Liverpool, the third waived his right and Liverpool had the opportunity at any time to exercise an option and that is because they held their rights and could only extend this contract for four years.

"It is exactly the same as if you, when you were a player, had signed a contract with another club and declared that six months before the expiration of our contract, you had signed a contract with another club and you were going to move in. At that time, there is no decision once he signed a new contract where he will go because he signed a contract to go there Carlos had signed a contract to go to Man Utd and stay there permanently for two plus four years, which adds up to 6. I had no decision on this.

"So when you try to change the ownership situation of a third party and take a different position, I try to go back to the question you asked about tools and professionalism and not about the third party . " If you would like to discuss the property of a third party, I am happy to discuss it. "

Neville "I know why you are withdrawing as a third party owner because at the time Manchester United did not activate this option, the third party owners returned to play. Previously, you had me says Sir Alex Ferguson would have kept an eye on him. " of the ball, why didn't you activate the option if you thought Carlos Tevez was the right player for Manchester United?

Joorabchian: "Well, exactly. At the end of the season, David Gill called me and said" we want to exercise the option on Carlos, we will be in touch ". When you were in South Africa that year for the preseason, David Gill and Sir Alex made a After Berbatov's move, I think they should have used the money for this particular transaction and they used this transaction instead of buying Carlos. In January he had a choice and when Sir Alex wanted to sign Carlos was in May of the same year. "

"Sir Alex said: & # 39; We want you to stay & # 39; before the Champions League final. And then, after the Champions League final, he called Carlos and said: & # 39 ; I do not know where you are – Carlos had already returned to Argentina – but I would really like you to stay and return to United.

"But the option was already expired at that time and Carlos was already looking for other options because he was quite disappointed that during the two seasons Sir Alex did not sign it . "

"Then, at one point, Sir Alex changed his mind by wanting to stay with Carlos when he realized he was on the verge of losing him. Perhaps during the period they felt this because they had the choice and the ability to just sign a document and they sent it to the Premier League and signed Carlos for four years, they didn't think it 39 they had the urgency to do so.

"And maybe after the end of the emergency, they realized they were on the verge of losing it and it was too late.

"I don't think talking about professionalism and disassembly tools has anything to do with it."

Neville: "OK, I’m trying to connect the dots here – Man Utd signed Dimitar Berbatov at the start of the 2008-09 season. They beat Man City with the signing of Dimitar Berbatov and City was quite upset because ; they thought he was going to see them

"During the following season, Dimitar played a few games, Carlos played a lot less and Man Utd decided not to activate his option during the season, at Christmas or whenever possible."

"I'm right to say that the owners of Carlos Tevez made double the money by going to Man City instead of staying and activating the option to stay at United, and it was in fact in the economic interest of the owners of Carlos that he did not really sign this option and had a good second season at the club. "

Joorabchian: "The point you are referring to concerns the player's financial and economic rights after United has not activated his option and what you need to understand is that many players, when their contracts are exhausted and are free, obviously require more at this point when someone has to pay £ 100 million or £ 80 million for them.

"The fact was, of course, that Man City was going to pay more for him than Man Utd, and at that time there were also Real Madrid and Barcelona, ​​who had made official offers for Carlos after his option expired and the word had spread. "He learned that his option had expired.

"But Carlos' decision was that the approach to Man City was taking him a bit at that time, because Man City had come in with a lot of love for him and felt that maybe towards contract ended in May, he wanted to stay at United and United hadn't. They had exercised that option, so it was time for him to move on because maybe Berbatov was the new favorite of the club.

"But I don't think the financial problem has anything to do with it, because Carlos would not get any financial advantage by signing with Man Utd or Man City or Real Madrid."

"As you know, the transfer fees remain with the clubs. The clubs and their property maintain the transfer fees. If a player is sold outside of Man Utd, he does not profit economically apart from the renegotiation of his contract of play and gives the possibility of renegotiating his contract of play. He gains nothing from the transfer.

"And at that time, the owners of Carlos and Javier Mascherano really had no say in the destination of Carlos, because ultimately Carlos decided where he was going alone.

"You know very well that Carlos is a very strong player, as strong as you, I think he would have had no problem debating it with you all day, and Carlos is a different type of person . "

"You have to remember that when Carlos was born, his father had been shot dead before his birth in Buenos Aires by drug traffickers. He was born to a dependent mother, he was discharged from a hospital with the first degree burned by her aunt and her husband.

"Carlos is a guy who lived in the favelas and never forgot him during this Covid-19 scenario, he is at the forefront of the creation of his foundation and donates a lot and a lot of his own wealth personal in this area and promoting that.

"He lives very close to the favela where he was raised, his friends are always there and he is not one to forget him and he is not the type of person to whom someone can go and say, "Hey, now I have to go to Man City, now go to Real Madrid. "

"It has never been like this throughout his career and now when he was at Juventus he played two years and then he wanted to go back to his childhood club just like you , and he won yet another trophy. So this is not a man who could be influenced in any way … "

Neville: "Kia, I know the story of Carlos perfectly when he came to Manchester and, as I said before, I knew he was a warrior for a footballer."

"But I believe that someone in the middle of Carlos would also need financial and professional support and influence in his business, as this is natural and the same for all football players. We are not businessmen when we play football, only we think of playing football.

"And my point of view, when you asked me who influenced him, was influenced, in my opinion, it must have been by people who owned him because they were very good friends .

"And what I mean is that the owners of Carlos Tevez, who had a very good relationship with him, so that Carlos could play football and someone who had an incredible desire to play football. football, these owners won twice Carlos Tevez goes to Man City instead of staying in Man Utd. "

Joorabchian: "The owners of Carlos Tevez were not good friends and had no relationship with Carlos Tevez. If you understand and want to talk about third party property because now you are trying to shift the scene to a spectrum different, I have no problem with It: The way third party ownership works across South America, and how it worked, is that clubs could sell the winnings or the potential winnings of a player to third parties to raise capital to pay because they do not have the same amount of TV rights, the same number of sponsorships, etc. and they must create of capital.

"Players don't necessarily know who could win a percentage of their rights when they are sold. In fact, they don't even get involved in it, it is rather a financial arena for the club. in cash ".